Sure I refute the bible and quote because it is not the truth, and because the truth cannot be refuted, sure it has been changed, you need to study the history of bible till KJV and onwards.. but still some words of God Almighty are still there and these cannot be denied but to accept the whole as a word of God is wrong
I have been giving you the logical replies, which had biblical verses as proof, all these days, and your reply has only been, anger, and stataments like “You don’t prove it”, “you are not good at convincing”, or “better work harder”.. a sane and logical person would have replied logically, showing his / her logic against each point, just by saying you don’t prove it, and denying all the logic.. is insane and illogical. It only shows how bad your logic is and also it shows that you don’t have a counter logic, and that is call avoiding the question and logic…
I told you nowhere moon is sighted as holy in Islam, and your question regarding Mosques having moon, was answered before, which I remind you again. The moon on the Mosques is just a decoration, In addition to that I now say.. , the Turkish flag contained moon, and Turks once represented the Islamic Caliphate, and the mosques build in that Era contained the symbol of Turks Caliphate the moon, and the mosques built after that era, if they contain moon, it can either be a decoration, or a reminder that once Muslims had the big Empire, a reminder of their glory, and their Caliphate, .. nothing holy… you need to come up with your logical reply…
As far as the age of Ayesha (peace be upon her) for marriage is concerned, I again already replied you, that the girl of 9 is mature enough for marriage and have children, science also shows that, your society also shows that, so Islam is proven by science also, actually you are looking through your US laws, and trying to interpret Islamic laws, this way you wont be able to understand a thing. Let me give you an example from the todays world, you drive on right side of the roads in US while in UK they drive on the left side, now a person like you would say… I wont accept Britts… because they drive on the wrong side of the road, whereas any reasonable person would say it does not matter, they have their rules. Another thing if the rules don’t go against the humanity and commandments they can be changed, so Islamic rules don’t go against proven science and humanity in any way, so it proves that marriage of Ayesha (peace be upon her) was according to the laws, science, and humanity, moreover, if it were against her will, she would have definitely said against it after the death of Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him), moreover it was a norm in the early ages to get married to the girls even younger than that, Islam prohibbited that custom, by this event. So what if Ayesha 9 and he was 54, but similarly earlier Marry was 7 or 9 and Joseph was 36 or 46.. so your statement … WHAT KIND OF PERVERTED GOD DO YOU SERVE? ONLY SATAN WOULD SEND A MAN LIKE THIS NOT A HOLY GOD…. Tell me was Joseph perverted man to marry a little girl of 7 or 9 or was he a satan, or was it holy ghost, God or satan made Marry a little girl of 12 pragnent, and still you did not answer what is the maturity age of girls in the scriptures?..… again your logical reply is demanded..
I told you Islam means “Submission of ones will to the will of God Almighty”, it also means “Peace”, surely Jesus said, many times and I quoted earlier, that Jesus (peace be upon him) submitted his will to the will of God, and kept the commandments, and he also asked his desciples to do the same, so he was a Muslim, and that act is called Islam. God made Islam (Submission, and peace) only, all the other religions were made by humans.
Paganism is associating partners with God, Just like Ibrahim (peace be upon him), Muhummad (peace be upon him) was from the Pagans, but he did not follow them, I told you earlier, these pagans were from Ismail (peace be upon him), the Kaaba was first made by Adam (peace be upon him), which was destroyed by flood of Noah (peace be upon him), later it was rebuilt by Ibrahim (peace be upon him) and Ismail (peace be upon him) together on the same foundation, and all the praying and circling was done by both of them, and stone throwing was done by Ismail (peace be upon him) when he was being taken for sacrifice and devil tried to provoke Ismail against the will of God and Ibrahim(peace be upon him). (I know bible is either silent or speak against it, but I have proven bible to be corrupted many times).. Both of them asked their children to worship only Allah. But with the passage of time (and in the absence of any prophets as was the case with jews) their descendents did mix 360 gods with Allah (this is where you picked up the story and quoted), and made idols of Allah and other gods, and put them into Kaaba, and went into Paganism. Just like Jesus asked people to worship only one God, and showed them how, but their descendents are now into paganism and associate Jesus and Holy Ghost with Allah, can I say Jesus was pagan just because his followers are now pagans… no that will be a lie.. similarly, the descendents of Ibrahim went into Paganism, but Muhummad (peace be upon him) revived the same religion which was once taught by Ibrahim (peace be upon him) and Ismail (peace be upon him), through the revelation from Allah, and all the idols were abandoned, and the worship of only Allah remains.. again I remind you to be logical and come up with counter logic …
Surely Allah (arabic) is another pronounciation of Elohim (hebrew Eloh+im) and Elaw (Aramaic)… you need to come with a logical reply to deny that.. Arabic is similar to Hebrew and Aramaic… I give you example.. what Jesus said… Eli Eli lama sabakhtani (hebrew)… let us see what it is in Arabic.. it is Allah Allah lamma taraktani.. can you see the similarity.. I give you another example.. house in Hebrew is Beth.. in Arabic it is Bait… see I can quote many other similar sounding and similar meaning words… because these are called sister languages, so just a similar sounding and similar meaning for Eloh or Elohim of hebrew is Allah in Arabic.. again I remind you to give me your logical reply to deny that..
Surely Quraan does say that [006:163] No partner hath He: this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who bow to His will. (be a Muslim)… but it means among those people at that time, Muhummad (peace be upon him) was the first to be a Muslim… in the rest of Quraan, reference is made to several prophets and earlier nations and it is said they were also Muslims (who bowed down to the will of Allah)… it is just your misunderstanding of the translation.. because you don’t have a complete picture of Quraan.
mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 6:40 AM
EDT)>> CHRISTIANITY MEANS TO BE CHRIST - LIKE SO YES JESUS DID
HEAR OF CHRISTIANITY BECAUSE THEIR WERE CHRISTIANS… this shows how bad is your
history.. Christians … was a title given to the followers of the Christ, by the
the opposition, long after Jesus, in fact Jesus asked his people to keep the
commandments of God, which means he was asking his people to become Muslims
(again I have to remind you… Muslims means submit to the will or commandments
of God) not to be like him, because no one could, he was far above them, and
infact he even mocked some of the
desciples by saying… you one of little faith, and things like that.. that
proves your logic wrong.. if you have another logic instead of just denial... I
am all eyes and ears.
mykeysarelost:
<<(10/14/06
6:47 AM EDT)>> ISLAM COMES FROM PAGANISM AND YOU ONLY WORSHIP SATAN NOT
THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC AND JACOB … this means you are saying mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 6:47 AM EDT)>> ISLAM (submission of will
to God) COMES FROM PAGANISM AND YOU ONLY WORSHIP SATAN NOT THE ONE TRUE GOD OF
ABRAHAM, ISSAC AND JACOB… which means ABRAHAM, ISSAC AND JACOB did not submit
their will to God… which mean you are saying they submitted to someone else and
worshipped someone else.. which means they were pagans.. what a blasphemy.. so
either you are wrong in your statement or they submitted to God… which only
means they were Muslims…. I remind you again to come up with a logical reply if
you have one instead of just denying… the reason of saying I AM The GOD OF
ABRAHAM, ISSAC AND JACOB, is obvious, it is because these prophets were the
ones most close to God at that time, and these were the ones who were
worshipping God Alone, without associating partners with Him, the rest of
nations were pagans, that phrase also shows that He is not a pagan’s god, He is not an idol,
He is not a human god, He is not pharo, or a Holy Ghost, or Jesus.. it also
shows, that the nation of these prophets were not adhering to the principles of
these prophets.. This can be explained by an example to make you understand..
let us suppose I get a call, and my secretary says.. sir you have a call, .. I
say.. who is it?… she says.. the president, .. I say… which president?.. she
says.. the president of Condoliza Rice, Armitage, Cheny and Rumsfeld…. But that conversation does not
mean he is not the president of the rest of Americans… it is only to point out
that he is the one most close to them, and he is the one who being served by
them,.. it is not
Jesus (peace be upon him) never promised that the paraclete will come after 50 years … in fact he never bound any timeframe, he only said paraclete will come when he goes,… how long after him, it depends on Gods will, because Jesus said, that he will ask the God to give you another paraclete, so it was God’s will when he gave the paraclete … so if you try to bind it to a time frame and say 50 is good enough but 600 is not good enough.. it only means that you are bending the promise of Jesus into your conditions, and don’t agree with the God’s will.…. Again a logical reply please instead of only denial..
mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 7:01 AM
EDT)>> I SUBMIT TO GOD AND I AM NOT A MUSLIM AND I WILL NEVER
BE A MUSLIM… in only one statement you are full of contradiction.. because the
word Muslim means the one who submits to the God.. so your statement becomes mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 7:01 AM EDT)>> I SUBMIT TO GOD (Muslim)
AND I AM NOT A MUSLIM AND I WILL NEVER BE A MUSLIM.. or … mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 7:01 AM EDT)>> I SUBMIT TO GOD AND I AM
NOT A MUSLIM (who submit to God) AND I WILL NEVER BE A MUSLIM (who submit to
God)… see what the book of contradictions has done to you.. that is why I
mostly avoid your contradictory remarks…
mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 7:10 AM
EDT)>> THE REASON THE BIBLE SPOKE ONLY OF JEWS AND GENTILES
BECAUSE THOSE WERE THE ONLY TWO ON EARTH AT THE TIME… this shows that either you
are hiding information, or what you said earlier that you learnt bible for 8
years and taught for 20, were lies.. because you are denying the pharo, and his
nation who demanded Sarah, and Ibrahim’s nation, .. surely there would have
been other nations archealogical evidence proves that, Incas were here much
before Ibrahim, Indians were here much much much before Ibrahim, persians were
here too, Chinese archealogy also shows that they were also humans not apes at
that time and had built monuments … and other nations too. If bible does not
speak of the things.. it does not mean they did not exist..
I already told you the word Ishmael means “heard by
God”, yet you claim that Ibrahim committed adultry would any man commit adultry
and call the bastard as I was head by God, in fact he would like to destroy the
proof of his adultry, he would kill the baby, or totally deny the ownership,
and would not rejoice his arrival, or even name him “Heard by God”, which may
show that he was the one who was badly needed, and who was prayed for badly day
and night from God at the old age of 86.. It means you did not understand what
I quoted earlier.. let me explain it again.. by naming the child I was heard by God.. shows that the child was
prayed hard for to the God by Ibrahim, since he was 86 years old and had no
child.. so if your bible says that he committed adultry.. that only shows the
prejudice of Jews.. and Allah, both reveals and refutes prejudice by just one
word Ishmail.. praises be to Allah, how by just one word he refutes and reveals
the falsehood of books. This also shows how altered bible is.. both OT and NT..
again you need to come up with the logical reply, instead of just denial..
mykeysarelost:
<<(10/14/06
7:23 AM EDT)>> NEVER SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT PROPHETS COMING FROM THE LINE
OF ISHMAEL… yet earlier you showed that God promised to bless Ishmael, by
making him a great nation.. let us look what a great nation means in the light
of bible..
Deut
4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the
LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that
hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before
you this day?... see the
definition of "great nation" as being a nation that directly receives
a Law from GOD Almighty… now let us see what was the warning for the nation of
Israel from the bible.. (Matthew 21:43)Jesus said to the Jews:
"Therefore say I unto you, The
Sure, Qu'ran states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God.. but it also says that these were changed by the people as I stated earlier, and as a result the present books are not original Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels, because history also proves the verdict of Quraan, that these have been modified greatly… Regarding your so called proofs from Quraan that bible is not corrupt.. first of all let me give you a summary.. the Arabic word in all these places for word of Allah is Sunnah and Kalimah.. which means “word”, “action”, “decree”, “promise”, “saying”.. in all the places Allah is saying to the servants or to the Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him).. don’t worry, I have done so and so things in the past… the situation is same with you, and the “word”, “action”, “decree”, “promise”, “saying”.. of Allah don’t change, if they do the same things with you, that the earlier people did with the earlier prophets and servants, I will do the same “word”, “action”, “decree”, “promise”, “saying”.. and deal with them as I dealt with the earlier ones.. Having said the summary … let us see each one you quoted in context and see who is right you or me..
(6:34) "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the (“word”, “action”, “decree”, “promise”, “saying”) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,". … sure it says what I mentioned in the summary, that people rejected previous messengers just like you, and as they were helped out you will also be helped because THE “word”, “action”, “decree”, “promise”, “saying” DON’T CHANGE,… where does it say bible is not corrupted… get a logical reply..
[006:115] The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all…. The verse says.. the “word”, “action”, “decree”, “promise”, “saying” that your Lord Allah does, do complete as these are truth and justice, and because no one has the power to change or effect them, and only Allah knows and hears everyone.. now where it says bible is not corrupted.. it is only saying that the words or promises of God Almighty do find fulfillment… nothing related to protection of bible… get a logical reply..
[010:063] Those who
believe and (constantly) guard against evil;- [010:064] For them are glad tidings, in
the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the
words of God. This is indeed the supreme felicity. [010:065] Let not their speech grieve
thee: for all power and honour belong to God: It is He Who heareth and knoweth
(all things)…. These verses only are
giving glad tidings to the believers i.e Muslims, and assuring them that the
promise to them by their God will be fulfilled, and if you don’t happen to notice
what is the promise of God.. it is happiness in this life deliverance from the
wrath of Allah i.e. hell in the day of Judgment and putting them into the
paradise as a reward of their constant guarding against the evil.., and asking
the Prophet Muhummad peace be upon him, directly and Muslims indirectly not to
be grieved when these pagans and missionaries (like you) throw abuses and bad
words.. so where is the protection of bible in these verses.. I know my book
Alhamdulillah (praises be to Allah).. , you don’t know even yours.. get a
logical reply….
Your questions .. The question I have
for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the
Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and
Allah's words cannot be changed?" … and …
mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06
7:32 AM EDT)>> YOUR OWN BOOK SAYS NO ONE CAN ALTER THE WORDS OF ALLAH
SO HOW CAN THE BIBLE BE CORRUPTED? DID ALLAH FAIL?... now both of your questions seem out of ignorance after I have
answered above… still where did Allah
say the present Torah, Psalms and Gospels are not corrupted, because he already
said and which I already quoted from Quraan earlier, .. that people did change
the words given to them, and so bible got corrupted.. because Allah let it get
corrupted by the people, but He provided the message and Laws again in the form
of Quraan. … I can explain again and again.. for you to understand … now get a
logical reply..
So now my book shows that it does say that bible is corrupt.. and in fact it says that people did change the earlier books .. which I quoted last time.. and also that there is no contradiction in the Quraan… because Contradicting words are not from Allah, and that all of Bible is not from God… this also shows that if some words of God are similar in Quraan and Bible those words in Bible can be considered as word of God, this also shows that translation can never come equal to the original words in any way, this also shows that how Quraan is protects itself from attacks, this also shows the advantage of having the original word of Allah, instead of translation because one can also refer back to the original to see if the translator has committed any mistake or some missionary is twisting or misunderstanding the translation. This also shows that on the judgement day you will stand corrected unless you correct yourself here, because there, it will be too late for you, and you wont have another chance.. now you need to come up with a logical reply instead of just denial …
Sure lieing is sin, but for a law to be complete, exceptions are to be included, for example, Jesus asked his desciples to offer the other cheek, give Cloak too whoever sues for a coat, but Christians cannot adhere to that, and have to go againt the commandment to servive in the real life, just like you do by calling me different abuses, this shows that how incomplete the Christian laws are, and how difficult it is to follow those laws, and how Christians daily break the commandments of their Jesus.. you quoted your example… which shows you did not understand when I said that these are exceptions.. and exceptions are for exceptional cases, not for normal routines, so if you don’t mind the comments from your husband, after marriage of decades, it does not mean, all the woman, specially the ones who are newly married also wont mind, sure they do, such comments break their heart, and creats hatred against their husbands, and to keep the marriage, and to keep the wife happy if husband says something good about her, her cookings, her dressings, or other behavour, which may not be true, those subtle lies are forgiven because Allah wants the family unit to servive.. Your example also shows why there in your society the divorce rate is most high, unlike in Muslim countries, husband and wife do live together for life and divorces are rare, and infact divorces are there mostly who follow the western culture… you need to logically reply..
The contradictions I quoted for Paul against Jesus… you managed to reply to only one.. yet again.. I say.. you cannot go against the commandments of Jesus whether you have been following Jesus for 1 minute, 5 years or 50 years, Jesus never said, you can go against my commandments if you keep them for 5 years, he asked his people to change their life, not just for 5 years, or for a small period.. for life.. and your example of babies… is absurd, because babies do grow, and do need other stuff to eat, but commandments cannot be changed, specially by a liar, only a true messenger can change them, Just like Jesus did change some of the commandments of Moses because he was a true messenger, not a liar like a Paul…. You need to come with a logical reply..
mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 7:57 AM
EDT)>> BBLOND YOUR GOB IS A FAKE LOL ADMIT IT AND MOVE ON AND I
AM NOT USING MISSIONARY TACTICS I JUST HAPPEN TO KNOW THE BIBLE BETTER THEN
YOU… you only showed you know ignorance better than me, not the truth.. and
sure you are using missionary tactice, because you cannot live without it, for
all these years of learning them and using them, and you even tried a few on
me, which I pointed out as they were used…. Most obious of them are,
misquoting, lieing, abusing, denying the logic and truth and being illogical in
replies..
Having a son is an act of animals, or of creations, not
of God. God does not need a son, the logic of which I told you in my last
reply, you need to come with a logical answer why God require a son if He has
power over all things, and if he is eternal, …
Regarding the usage of blood by the people on the doors,… I ask you.. did those people killed their sons and put their blood on the doors?… was that act of painting with blood, done, to avoid the angel of death or to redemption of sins? Can any one innocent bear the sins of others?, because if it so, why your courts don’t use that and kill some innocent to save the criminals… did Jesus said anything regarding belief of his death for salvation?… did Jesus said anything about the redemption of sins with his blood?… you are relating two unrelated, and totally different incidents, and coming out with an absurd and baseless logic…
Your claim, about swords of desciples.. sure Jesus knew that a direct conflict with the well trained army would annihlate the desciples, and would have even worse repurcussions for his people, so he thought that he should avoide the circumstance and went in hiding in the garden, and there he arranged he defence and went on for praying.. and showed his desciples how to pray.. now when the soldiers captured him, sure his desciples wanted to deal with them through the swords.. but he did not stop them, and infact his remarks of “those who live by sword, die by the sword” show that he was checking the will of his desciples if they want to die by the sword, it was the desciples who chose not to die.. had those desciples been Muslims of today.. they would have chosen to die by the sword, rather to give up Jesus so quietly, and go on enjoying their life, without their leader Jesus, this shows they learnt nothing, that is the fact Jesus knew long before, that is why he mocked them, by saying some of them as men of little faith, and things like that… give a logical reply..
mykeysarelost: <<(10/14/06 8:09 AM
EDT)>> JESUS WAS A PROPHET AND GOD AT THE SAME TIME SO YOUR
WORDS BACKFIRE ON YOU, how come it back fire on me, just because you say so they back fire on me,
they backfire?, it is just your words, did Jesus said people to consider him as
God.. if not then just by your words that my words backfire on me, without any
proof and logic, they don’t backfire, and that is illogical, … and my logic
stands.. regarding your belief that Jesus being a prophet, so you believe
according to my logic.. that you deny that Jesus was a God.. just to keep the
Deut 18:18, you have to deny the deity of Jesus.. or chose between deity and
prophethood of Jesus.. and regarding Jesus sending some prophets.. seems like
you forget what you learnt and taught about bible,.. Jesus said he will ask his
God to send another prophet, not that he will send by his power, infact he even
denied that he had power to do the miracles, because he said all the miracles
were not from his power, but God did for him… so Jesus was just a man, God did
miracles for him, and God will send another prophet, just like Jesus, as said
by Jesus, and so your claim that Jesus was the last prophet gets refuted by the
Jesus himself, and Deut 18:18 does not say anything dual about the prophet,
i.e. he will be just a prophet, not a 2 in 1, i.e. not a prophet and a god, it
is what you Trinitarian pagans think..... get a logical reply.
Regarding chosing pagan days.. I already mentioned that Jews had their own system of days.. which were not pagan, and yet you chose the pagan ones, why?.. only because you want to remain pagans?
Regarding the pagan rituals in … I already explained above… see above..
Regarding Jesus died.. did Jonah die in water and in whale?.. if so then Jesus died too on the cross, if not then he did not die.. simple … give a logical reply instead of your assumptions or instead of your contradictory book.
Regarding Jesus was tortured on the back.. how come it disfugures him, if someone believe something, they have to have solid grounds from the scripture, moreover, turture from the back can still break the ribs, you seem you never fought or get kicked or punched hard on your ribs from the back.. if someone believe that he was tortured on the back, someone also believe that he was not captured at all, and these also wrote their account, which I mentioned to you, like GOB, and Apocalypses, and bibles of unitarians like Nazorenes etc.. so it is those somesones of these days who dont have a base on the book, against someone from the time of Jesus who wrote their book,… come with a logicla reply ..
As I said above just by saying you proved nothing, does not mean anything, you have to come with a logical answer against each reply and against each point, you think you are a teacher, and always keep telling the student comeon do better than that.. well that is not the case here, you have to come with logical answer not by just saying “don’t prove”, don’t prove anything, only logic proves.. which you don’t have..and that is why I am have quoted again and again to come with a logical reply, in this reply, perhaps you get logical and don’t hide behind the illogical comments like you don’t prove, and you have to work harder, and thing like that… bring logical reply to that also..
I already challenged you, your words, like Trinity, Christianity, Rapture and your concepts like , redemption, original sin and deity, resurrection of Jesus etc. were not shown by Jesus (peace be upon him).. it was a later interpolation by other people, and don’t have any basis, in the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him).. I remind you again to come with counter logic.. instead of just denying..